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Title : Satsang with Ramesh Balsekar
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Satsang with Ramesh Balsekar

Imagine, if you want, that one morning you wake up in another world. As you rub your eyes to get used to the bright sunlight, you see that in many ways it is not a world that is very different from this one. You are surrounded by creatures who, to your eyes, appear identical to the humans you usually share the world with. You observe them as they move about their daily activities, live their lives, entertain themselves conversing with others, making the myriad choices and decisions inherent in life's demands. The picture seems reassuring, familiar and normal. But you soon discover that things in this world are not necessarily what they appear to be. Because these are not human beings. No, these are "body / mind organisms" which, unlike their human counterparts, they do not have the power to choose between multiple possibilities or to make decisions. In fact, these organisms have nothing remotely like what we would call free will. The plots of their lives were written in stone, long before they were born, leaving them only the ability to mechanically perform acts to represent their programming. These, in appearance of human creatures, it would seem, are no different from machines. While apparently they appear to behave like normal free-thinking individuals, busy with their daily activities, strangely when asked, they claim they are doing nothing at all. Indeed, in this peculiar world, they claim that there are no "those who act". Furthermore, no one in this world is ever held responsible for anything. Even when one of these beings appears to harm another, no remorse is felt and no blame is assigned. If you happen to ask one of these body / mind organisms something about it, the answer would be that there was no one who had done anything. Ethics is an unknown concept around here. The laws of nature do not seem applicable in this wonderful new world. Or maybe they have been rewritten here, since beings seem to observe some strange laws. You wonder where on Earth you might be. But you are not on Earth, you have landed on Planet Advaita. no remorse is perceived and no blame is assigned. If you happen to ask one of these body / mind organisms something about it, the answer would be that there was no one who had done anything. Ethics is an unknown concept around here. The laws of nature do not seem applicable in this wonderful new world. Or maybe they have been rewritten here, since beings seem to observe some strange laws. You wonder where on Earth you might be. But you are not on Earth, you have landed on Planet Advaita. no remorse is perceived and no blame is assigned. If you happen to ask one of these body / mind organisms something about it, the answer would be that there was no one who had done anything. Ethics is an unknown concept around here. The laws of nature do not seem applicable in this wonderful new world. Or maybe they have been rewritten here, since beings seem to observe some strange laws. You wonder where on Earth you might be. But you are not on Earth, you have landed on Planet Advaita. Or maybe they have been rewritten here, since beings seem to observe some strange laws. You wonder where on Earth you might be. But you are not on Earth, you have landed on Planet Advaita. I came to Bombay to interview Ramesh Balsekar, one of the best known Advaita Vedanta teachers currently alive. He lives in the heart of this vast, chaotic city, in an exclusive area facing the sea, which, my taxi driver informed me, is where many VIPs live. The doorman of his house, automatically deducing that as a Westerner I must have come to visit Ramesh Balsekar, directed me to an upper floor, where Balsekar's spacious and well-furnished residence is located. Balsekar was a very gracious host, welcoming me warmly, in his immaculate, traditional Indian attire. His demeanor was radiant and lively, and it was hard for me to believe he was eighty. Ramesh Balsekar comes from an unusual background for an Indian guru. Educated in the West, he had a successful career as an executive and retired from his position as president of the Bank of India at the age of sixty. And while he claims to have always been inclined to believe in destiny, it was only after his retirement from work that his spiritual quest began, a quest that quickly led him to his guru - the renowned Advaita Vedanta teacher Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. Nisargadatta was a fiery teacher who rose to fame in the West in the 1970s when an English translation of her dialogues titled I Am That (I Am That, Astrolabe, Milan, 2001) was published - a book that has become a modern spiritual classic. Within less than a year from the meeting with Nisargadatta, What he called "the final understanding" - enlightenment - suddenly happened to Balsekar while he was translating for his guru. According to Balsekar's account, Nisargadatta authorized him to teach just before he died, and since then, she has consistently shared his message as a successor to this highly respected teacher. Balsekar has published many books of his teachings and has taught in Europe, the United States and India. He holds satsang [interviews with a spiritual master] every morning in his apartment, and a steady stream of almost exclusively Western seekers go to Bombay to see him. At first we wanted to interview Balsekar, both because he is a popular and influential Advaita teacher - he has now authorized his students to teach - and because he is considered, by many, to be the successor of one of the most recognized Advaita teachers of the modern era. In studying Balsekar's writings, we soon realized that he was teaching an unusual and possibly eccentric form of Advaita which led, frankly, in our opinion, to questionable and even disturbing conclusions. Although Indian thought has long been criticized for its deterministic leanings, it seemed that Balsekar had taken this fatalism to an unprecedented extreme. It was both a desire to explore these disturbing spaces, and to continue with our interest especially in the Advaita teachings, which eventually led me to Bombay to speak with him. And as I arrived imagining a challenging meeting, looking back, it is clear to me that, while we were offered coffee and settled comfortably in his living room, I would have no chance to prepare myself for the dialogue that was beginning. Chris Parish: You are increasingly known as a teacher of Advaita Vedanta in both India and the West. Can you describe what you teach us? Ramesh Balsekar: I can really say it in one sentence. The phrase on which my entire teaching is based is: "Thy will be done." Or as the Muslims say it, Inshallah - "God's will." Or in the words of Buddha: "Events happen, deeds are done, there is no individual acting." You see, the basic conflict in life is, “I always do everything right so I expect my reward; he or she always does something wrong and therefore should be punished ”. This is life, isn't it? Chris Parish: Of course, it happens often. Ramesh Balsekar: This is the basis of what I have observed. The whole problem arises because someone says, "I did something and I deserve a reward, or he did something and therefore I want to punish him for what he did." Chris Parish: How do you lead people to this - that "there is no one who acts"? Ramesh Balsekar: It's very simple. If you analyze each action that you consider your action, you will find that it is a reaction of the brain to an external event over which you have no control. A thought comes - you have no control over the incoming thought. Something is seen and heard - you have no control over what you will see and hear next. All of these events happen without your control. What happens next? The brain reacts to the thought or thing seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched. The brain's reaction is what you call "your action". But, in fact, it's just a concept. Chris Parish: What is the difference, then, between the thoughts, feelings and actions of an enlightened person and an unenlightened person? Ramesh Balsekar: The same thing happens. The only difference is that the sage understands that that is what is happening. So he knows there is nothing he is doing - things just happen. The wise man knows that "I am not doing anything". But the common man says, “I do things and they do things. Therefore I want my reward and I want them to be punished ”. The reward or punishment comes from me, him, or her doing things. Chris Parish: I can understand through my experience that we have no control over the thoughts and emotions that surface. But sometimes an action follows and sometimes it doesn't, and it seems to me that there is a big difference between when a thought occurs only and when an action is taken that involves another person. Ramesh Balsekar: The action that happens is the result of the brain's reaction to thought. If you are only witnessing the thought and the brain does not react to that thought, then there is no action. Chris Parish: But, if, as you say, there is no one who decides how to respond, who is it that causes the manifestation of an action or not? Ramesh Balsekar: An action happens if it is God's will for it to happen. If it's not his will, it doesn't happen. Chris Parish: Do you mean that every action that occurs is by the will of God? Ramesh Balsekar: Yes - it is God's will. Chris Parish: Acting through a person? Ramesh Balsekar: Yes, through a person. Chris Parish: Whether this person is enlightened or not? Through each one, in other words? Ramesh Balsekar: Right. The only difference, as I said, is that the common man thinks: "It is my action", whereas the wise man knows that it is nobody's action. The sage knows that "actions are done, events happen, but there is no individual who acts." As far as I'm concerned this is the only difference. The only difference between a sage and an ordinary person is that the ordinary person believes that each individual does what happens through that body / mind organism. So since the sage knows that there is no action he takes, if an action occurs that hurts someone, he will do whatever he can to help that person - but there will be no guilt. Chris Parish: Do you mean that if an individual acts in such a way as to hurt another, the person who did it, or, as you say, the "body / mind organism" that acted it, is not responsible? Ramesh Balsekar: What I'm saying is that you know that "I" didn't. I'm not saying you're not sorry you hurt someone. The fact that someone has been hurt will induce a feeling of compassion and the feeling of compassion will result in my attempting to do what I can to heal the wound. But there will be no sense of guilt: I didn't! The other side of the coin is that there is an action that is praised by the company that rewards me for it. I am not saying that there will be no happiness caused by the reward. Just as compassion has manifested itself due to injury, a feeling of satisfaction or happiness can arise due to a reward. However, there will be no pride. Chris Parish: But do you literally mean that if I'm going to hit someone, I'm not the one to hit someone? I just want to be clear about it. Ramesh Balsekar: The initial fact, the original concept, still remains: you hit someone. The additional concept arises that whatever happens is the will of God, and the will of God relating to each body / mind organism is the destiny of that body / mind organism. I use the word "program" in reference to the inherent characteristics of the body / mind organism. “Programming” for me means genes plus environmental conditioning. You couldn't choose your parents, so you didn't have a choice in your genes. Likewise, you had no say in the environment of birth. Chris Parish: So I could just say, "Well, I acted by God's will, it's not my fault." Ramesh Balsekar: Sure. An act happens because it is in the destiny of this body / mind organism, and because it is the will of God. And the consequences of that action are also the destiny of that body / mind organism. If a good deed happens, that is fate. For example, let's take Mother Teresa. The body / mind organism known as Mother Teresa was thus programmed for only good deeds to happen. So the manifestation of good deeds was the destiny of the body / mind organism called Mother Teresa and the consequences were a Nobel Prize, rewards, honors and donations for various causes. All of this was the fate of that body / mind organism called Mother Teresa. On the other hand there is a psychopathic organism that is programmed in such a way - from the same Source - that only bad or perverse actions happen. The manifestation of these evil perverse actions is the fate of a body / mind organism that society calls a psychopath. But the psychopath did not choose to be a psychopath. In fact, there is no psychopath; there is only a psychopathic body / mind organism, whose destiny is to produce evil and perverse actions. And the consequences of such actions are also the fate of that body / mind organism. Chris Parish: Do you think everything is predestined? That everything is planned from birth? Ramesh Balsekar: Yes. I use the word “program” in reference to the inherent characteristics of the body / mind organism. “Programming” for me means genes plus environmental conditioning. You couldn't choose your parents, so you didn't have a choice in your genes. Likewise, you had no say in the environment of birth. Therefore, you had no choice about the childhood conditioning that you received in that environment, which includes the conditioning at home, in society, at school and in church. Psychologists say that the sum of the conditioning received by the age of three or four is the basic conditioning. There will be further conditioning, but the basic conditioning that creates the personality is the sum of the genes plus the environmental conditioning. I call it programming. Each body / mind organism is programmed in a unique way. No two body / mind organisms are alike. Chris Parish: Yes, but isn't it true that two people can have a similar assortment of conditionings and yet be completely different from each other? Ramesh Balsekar: Sure. For this reason I use two terms: one is the programming of the body / mind organism itself; the other is destiny. Destiny is God's will regarding that body / mind organism, imprinted at the moment of conception. The fate of a conceived may be not to be born at all - in which case he will be aborted. This is all a concept, don't be wrong. This is my concept. Chris Parish: You say this is a concept and, sure all words are concepts, but how do we know that this concept represents the truth? I tend to think that everyone has individual responsibilities and that, although there is a certain amount of conditioning that we inherit, we can still choose the answer. One individual may transcend aspects of his or her conditioning, while another may be stuck in it for life. Since this happens, I would say it is due to the individual's willingness to transcend conditioning, and to be successful. Ramesh Balsekar: But if this happens, can it happen if it is not God's will? Suppose there are two people: one tries to overcome his limits and succeeds; the other can't. What I mean is: both he who succeeds and he who fails do so because that is the fate of his body / mind organism - which is God's will. Chris Parish: But could we not simply say that it is God's will to give each individual the free choice to make his or her own decisions? Ramesh Balsekar: No. You see, my question is: which of the two wills prevails? That of the individual or that of God? In your experience, to what extent did your free will prevail? Chris Parish: I think that, at times, the will of the individual can certainly prevail. Ramesh Balsekar: Against God's will? When you want something and you work to get it and you get it, you get it because your will coincides with God's. Chris Parish: Let's take the example of an individual who becomes a drug addict and remains so all his life. One, can just as easily argue, who made this choice to go against God's will and was successful - precisely because there is free will. Ramesh Balsekar: But whether you accept it or not in itself is God's will, can't you see it? Whether you accept God's will or you don't accept God's will, it's God's will itself! Chris Parish: To say that everything is planned in advance, that everything is destiny, that there is no free choice, seems like a very extreme form of reductionism. According to this view, human beings are like computers; everything about us is fully prepared. Ramesh Balsekar: Yes, precisely. Chris Parish: But this seems like a heartless vision to me. Then we are just machines - everything happens to us. There is nothing we can do, nothing we can change. Ramesh Balsekar: Yes, exactly. Chris Parish: But that could easily lead to a profound indifference to life. Ramesh Balsekar: Yes, and if it happens, then that would be great! Chris Parish: Really? Ramesh Balsekar: But that's the point! Of course. Then you can say that whatever happens is accepted. Then there is no unhappiness; there is no misery, there is no guilt, pride, hatred, envy. What's wrong with that? And as I have already told you, actions happen through this body / mind organism, and if this individual discovers that an act has hurt someone, compassion arises. Chris Parish: But doesn't it seem a little strange to hurt someone first and then feel compassion? Wouldn't it be better, in the first place, not to hurt him? Ramesh Balsekar: But it's not under your control! If it was, you never would have done it in the first place. Chris Parish: But if one believes that one can exercise control by opposing the belief that says otherwise, they may choose not to. Ramesh Balsekar: So why doesn't the human being exercise control over every action that occurs? Let me ask you a question. It is evident that the human being possesses an extraordinary intellect, an intellect such that a small human being was able to send a man to the moon. Chris Parish: Yes, that's right. Ramesh Balsekar: And he also has the intellect to understand that if he does certain things, other terrible things will happen. He has the intellect to know that if he produces nuclear weapons or chemical weapons, then terrible things will be used and terrible things will happen in the world. He has the intellect - so if he has free will, then why does he do it? If he has free will, why did he reduce the world to these conditions? Chris Parish: I admit that the situation you describe is obviously unhealthy. But I would suggest that it is because people have a weak will. And I think they can change if they want to - if they care. Ramesh Balsekar: So why didn't they do it? Chris Parish: Some people change, but as I said unfortunately most people seem to have a weak will. Free will alone does not assure us that we will act intelligently. As in the example you just gave, it is clear that people often choose to do things that are quite harmful. Ramesh Balsekar: If you say that we have the free will to destroy the world, it means, in other words, that we are destroying the world because we want it - knowing full well that the world will be destroyed! Free will means you want to do it. Chris Parish: I think the problem is more people don't usually take the consequences of their actions. Often they think only of themselves, without considering where their actions may lead. Ramesh Balsekar: But the human being is extraordinarily intelligent. Why doesn't he think in the ways you propose? My answer is - because it is not supposed to. Chris Parish: When you say "not expected", what does that mean? Ramesh Balsekar: It is not God's will for human beings to think in these terms. It is not God's will for human beings to be perfect. The difference between the wise and the common person is that the wise accept that it is as God wills, but - and this is important - that it does not stop him from doing what he believes should be done. And what he thinks he has to do is based on programming. Chris Parish: But why would the sage "do what he thinks should be done" if, as you have already explained, he knows that he is not thinking in the first place? Ramesh Balsekar: You mean, how does the action happen? The answer is that the energy within the body / mind organism performs the action according to the programming. Chris Parish: So action, as you describe it, manifests itself only through the person. Ramesh Balsekar: Yes, it flows. Action happens. Therefore, this is the point of what I say - going back, again, to the words of the Buddha: "Events happen, deeds are done." Chris Parish: From what I know about the Buddha's thinking, he also felt strongly that individuals were personally responsible for their actions. Isn't this the basis of his entire teaching on karma, cause and effect? Ramesh Balsekar: Not the Buddha! Chris Parish: It is my impression that Buddha taught "right action" quite a bit. He seemed to care very much about what people were doing, and he placed a lot of emphasis on people making appropriate efforts to change themselves. Ramesh Balsekar: This is a later interpretation of Buddhism. The Buddha's words are very clear. Who is in control of what happens? God is in control! This is the basis of all religions, as we have seen. And why are there religious wars if this is the basis of all religions? They are the interpreters, the cause of these wars! It's still, how could this happen if it were not God's will? Chris Parish: You clearly believe that everything we do, we do because of God's will. It seems to me, however, that this only makes sense in the case of an individual who has come to the end of his spiritual path - that concluded with the ego - because the actions of this person are not in the service of himself, and therefore, there would be no distortion of God's will. But up to that point, if an individual acts badly towards another, he could just being a compulsive reaction because he feels selfish. If that were the cause, then what you say could actually be used as a justification for unpleasant or aggressive behavior. They might just say, "Everything is God's will. It doesn't matter!" Ramesh Balsekar: I know, but that's the truth. Your real question is, "Why did God create the world this way?" You see, however, a human being is just a created object that is part of the totality of the manifestation that has been generated by Source. So my answer is: "A created object cannot in any way know its creator!" Let me bring you a metaphor. Let's imagine that you paint a picture, and in that picture you paint a figure. Then that figure wants to know, number one, why you, as a painter, painted that particular picture, and, number two, why you made such an ugly figure! See, how can a created object ever, in any way, come to know the will of its creator? However my view is that this doesn't stop you from doing what you think should be done! Accepting that nothing happens without God's will does not prevent anyone from doing what they believe should be done. Can you do otherwise? Chris Parish: But based on this line of reasoning, as I said before, I would think it would be pretty easy to conclude: “Okay it's all in God's will; it doesn't matter what happens ". And then just let it all go. Ramesh Balsekar: You mean, "So why not stay in bed all day"? Chris Parish: Exactly, why keep making efforts? Ramesh Balsekar: The answer is that the energy within this body / mind organism will not allow this body / mind organism to remain inactive even for a moment. The energy will continue to produce some action, physical or mental, every moment, according to the programming of the body / mind organism and the destiny of the body / mind organism, which is the will of God. But this does not prevent you, still thinking that you are an individual, from doing what you believe needs to be done. So what I actually say is, “What you think you should do in any situation, at that particular moment, is precisely what God wants you to think should be done! Ultimately, accepting God's will doesn't stop you from doing what you think needs to be done. You see? In fact, you can't help but do it! Chris Parish: I read something about a booklet written by several of your students that seems relevant in this regard. He says, “What you like can only be what God wants you to like. Nothing can happen without his will ”. The booklet also adds: “Don't feel guilty even if adultery occurs. You, the Source, are always pure ”. Ramesh Balsekar: This is what Ramana Maharshi said. Chris Parish: Source can always be pure, but again, it seems to me that this could easily be taken as permission to act without consciousness. You might say, "It doesn't matter if I commit adultery, it doesn't matter if I hurt my friends, because that action just happens." It can easily be taken as permission to act according to desire, just because I happen to have that desire. Ramesh Balsekar: But isn't that really what happens? Chris Parish: It does happen, of course, but… Ramesh Balsekar: You mean it would happen more frequently? Chris Parish: It could easily happen more often. I could say: "Here, it doesn't matter what I do now. I don't have to worry about holding back if I feel a desire ”. Is it clear to you what I mean? Ramesh Balsekar: The commonly asked question is, "If I don't really do anything, what's stopping me from taking a machine gun and going out and killing twenty people?" This is what you mean to ask, isn't it? Chris Parish: Well that's an extreme example Ramesh Balsekar: Yes, let's take an extreme example! Chris Parish: But I think it is more interesting to consider the example of adultery, because many people would not really do something as extreme as to strain others. Ramesh Balsekar: Okay. It is the same when we speak of committing adultery. I have read that psychologists and biologists, based on their research, have come to the conclusion that if you cheat your wife, you shouldn't blame yourself. More and more scientists are coming to the conclusion that mystics have always maintained - that whatever action happens is traceable to programming. Chris Parish: I realize that in some cases this may be true, but let's say, for example, that I have an urge to commit adultery. I could say, "It has to be God's will for it to happen, so I will." Or, I might hold back and not cause a lot of pain for my friends. Wouldn't it be better if you held me back? Ramesh Balsekar: So who is stopping you from holding back? Do what you want! What is stopping you from holding yourself back? Hold on! Chris Parish: My point is that it's better to do this! Ramesh Balsekar: Mine too. Searching is the biggest obstacle due to the presence of the seeker. The seeker is the obstacle - not the seeking; seeking happens by itself. Seeking happens because the body / mind organism is programmed to seek. Chris Parish: But according to your view, I could just as easily say, "If I feel a desire it is by virtue of God's will." And then don't hold me back. Ramesh Balsekar: You say you know you should hold back - so why don't you hold back? If a body / mind organism is programmed not to deceive its wife, whatever others say it will not. If you are programmed not to raise a hand on anyone, would you start killing people? Now, if there was a law that allowed you to beat your wife without taking any risks, would you start beating your wife? No, without the body / mind organism being programmed to do so, and if it is programmed to do so, it would happen anyway. As I said, accepting God's will will not stop you from doing whatever you think needs to be done. Do it! Do exactly what you think needs to be done! Chris Parish: Ultimately, however, how can we say that we know this is God's destiny or will? All we know is that certain events occur. Later, we can review what we have done and admit: "It just happened." And if we like it we can call it destiny. But isn't it more accurate to say that we don't really know if it's destiny or not? Saying that we don't know is different from saying that: "We know it is God's will." It is different from saying that we know that everything is already predestined. You see, it seems to me that you want to affirm that you know that everything is in the will of God. Ramesh Balsekar: We do not know, and this is the fact; so if you prefer, you can abandon the concept of destiny and say that nobody really knows anything about anything. Good. There is no need for the concept of destiny. After all, if you accept that whatever happens is not in your hands, then who is left to worry about fate? Chris Parish: Since many spiritual seekers come to you for advice on the spiritual path, I would like to ask you, what value do you see, if any, in spiritual practice as a tool towards enlightenment? Ramesh Balsekar: If sadhana [spiritual practice] is needed, a body / mind organism is programmed to do sadhana. Chris Parish: In other words if it has to happen does it happen? Ramesh Balsekar: Right. People sometimes ask me, "If nothing is in my hands (if I can't act on anything), should I meditate or shouldn't I?". My answer is very simple. If you like to meditate, meditate; if you don't like it, don't force yourself to. Chris Parish: Is spiritual seeking then an obstacle to enlightenment? Ramesh Balsekar: Yes, researching is the biggest obstacle due to the presence of the researcher. The seeker is the obstacle - not the seeking; seeking happens by itself. Seeking happens because the body / mind organism is programmed to seek. So if seeking enlightenment occurs, then the body / mind organism has been programmed to seek. The obstacle is the seeker who says, "I want enlightenment". Chris Parish: So why have so many sages talked about the importance of research? Ramana Maharshi said that the seeker must want enlightenment as badly as a drowning man wants air - with such a level of focus and sincerity. Ramesh Balsekar: Sure. What he means, then, is that there has to be that kind of intensity to research. But he also said: “If you want to make an effort, you have to make an effort; but if it is destined that the effort should not be made, the effort will not be made ”. Ramana said this. So, you see, whether one seeks or does not seek is not under his control. If the search for God or the search for money happens, it is neither your merit nor your fault. Chris Parish: In one of your books you wrote that one has reached a certain depth of understanding when he can say: "I don't care if enlightenment happens or doesn't happen to this body / mind organism." Ramesh Balsekar: That's true. When it reaches that stage, then it means that the seeker is no longer there. He is extremely close to enlightenment because if there is no one to care about it, then there is no longer any seeker. Chris Parish: But the result might not just be extraordinarily profound indifference - which isn't enlightenment? Ramesh Balsekar: That could lead to enlightenment! Chris Parish: I still have one question. You often say that we should "just accept what is" Ramesh Balsekar: Yes, if it is possible for you to do so - and this is not under your control! Epilogue As I staggered past the doorman and stepped out into the crowded streets of Bombay my mind faltered. How could it be, I wondered as I made my way through the crowd, could an intelligent and polite man like Ramesh Balsekar really believe that everything is predestined, that before we are born, our destiny is already engraved in some sort of ethereal granite? Could he be truly serious in his insistence that our entire life, with its seeming endless stream of choices and decisions, of precarious opportunities to set its course for better or for worse, is truly, from the very first breath, a destiny? As I crossed the sidewalk in search of a café in which to find relief from the chaos, the difficult passages of our short dialogue whirled in my head. Yes, "So be it" is the essence of most religions, I thought to myself, but for the greatest mystics and sages who made these claims in history, surrendering to God's will has meant much more than simply accepting that there is nothing that can be done to affect life circumstances. Certainly what has traditionally been reported as "God's will" is what one discovers when he has completely abandoned the ego, when all selfish motives have been burned away, leaving him completely surrendered to carry out God's will, whatever it may be! For a Jesus or a Ramakrishna or a Ramana Maharshi to say that he had surrendered to God's will was a fact. But to say that this is true for everyone seemed to reflect, at the time, a dangerous and peculiar form of insanity and of a kind that could be used to justify the most extreme forms of behavior. Balsekar's statement "What you think you must do in every situation ... is precisely what God wants you to think must be done" means that for him the enlightened Buddha is not doing God's will to a greater extent than a serial killer attacking his next victim. I had come to the interview expecting some disagreement, but somehow even Balsekar's books on which all these ideas are repeatedly and clearly expressed had not prepared me for the encounter with the man himself. How did he come up with these ideas? I was wondering. And why? My thoughts went round and round, recalling every fact of his shuddering assertion that even when we hurt someone, we don't need to feel guilty, because we are not responsible for our actions - "that even Hitler was a mere instrument through which the horrible events that must have happened happened" - to his statement, which was beyond common sense, that we have no power to control our behavior or even to influence that of others. And all this in the context of his sci-fi description of us all as "body / mind organisms" acting out their "programming". Suddenly the welcome sight of a the shop appeared amidst the smog, and as I made my way through, I felt relief to find the kind of quiet oasis I had hoped for. It was there, at one of the many empty tables, as the first sip of sweet, velvety-tasting milk tea slid between my lips, which, in a flash, hit me. I wasn't drinking that tea! I wasn't sitting at that table! In fact, I was not the one who had entered the the-shop. And I wasn't the one who had just pestered himself for an hour arguing with a man who was now beginning to resemble a healthy individual. In fact, I hadn't done anything. It was as if a weight that I had carried all my life had suddenly lifted into the sky thanks to a balloon (with hot air), sent far away, never to return. All those years I had fought to become a better, more honest and generous human being - all that effort I had made to give up my inclinations of superiority, selfishness and aggression - they were all a foolish undertaking, all stupidly and unnecessarily based on. important idea that I had some control over my fate, and the petty presumption that what I did mattered to "others". How could I have been so astray? But wait, I wasn't the one who was led astray either! As if the clouds parted, I suddenly now see clearly, that what I had thought of as "my life" was just a mechanical process. The person I thought I was was just a machine. And the world I thought I was living in was not, as I had deduced, a world of human complexity, but one of mechanistic simplicity, of perfect order, a mathematical unfolding of programs in motion since the beginning of time. As the clinical perfection of God's scientific plan began to open before me, the ecstatic trill of absolute freedom - from worry, from preoccupation, from obligation, from guilt - began to run through my veins like a river bank without banks. And with that came an enveloping, resonant peace, an utter lack of tension, in the recognition that no matter what apparent ambiguity or uncertainty I might encounter thereafter, no matter what seemingly difficult decisions I might encounter, I could always rest with certainty. that whatever choice I made was exactly the choice God wanted me to make. The mysterious sense of a Stranger that had dragged me for so long had evaporated. The others in the cafe turned their heads as I laughed loudly, a long belly laugh, and I reflected to myself what a fantastic game life would be if everyone understood how it really goes, if everyone could have at least a glimpse of how free we would be,

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